Know Your Place. Story by Ed Burns and Kia Corthron. Teleplay by Kia Corthron.
Directed by Alex Zakrzewski.
First aired 12 November 2006.
Bubbles identifies a witness for Herc but Herc fails to return the favor by protecting him from his tormentor. Colvin offers an incentive to his class. Old Face Andre turns to Proposition Joe for protection after his ineptitude in the framing of Omar. Joe ingratiates himself with Marlo by handing Andre over to Chris and Snoop. Marlo finally joins the Co-Op and his enforcers begin to take on the New York drug dealers. Carver warns Namond about his drug dealing. Carcetti restricts commissioner Ervin Burrell's authority and insists on a promotion for Daniels. Michael takes his problem with his step father to Marlo. Omar plans revenge on Marlo and Proposition Joe. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wire_(season_4))
Darnell, Zenobia, and Namond at Ruth's Chris Steakhouse.
—Bunny Colvin
The worm is beginning to turn, as the old saying goes.
Just to make sure we all get this, in the last episode, there are several crucial moments.
1. Herc has revealed to Little Kevin that Randy talked about what happened the night Lex is killed.
2. Burrell is challenging Carcetti to fire him by doing the exact thing Carcetti opposes: hassling "citizens" on juked up charges. As Daniels tells the Mayor-to-be, half the police dept. is for this, and half is against. Will Carcetti risk alienating the ministers and provoking city council president Nerese Campbell by actually firing Burrell?
3. Bubbles is beaten terribly by The Fiend when Herc doesn't show up the way he was supposed to.
4. Prez is reliving his time on the police where "juking the stats...made majors colonels." Look below at this moment. As Grace Sampson (Cutty's ex lover) says, "Wherever you go, there you are."
5. And finally, Michael takes the problem of his father not to the school social worker, nor Prez nor Cutty, as Dukie suggests, but to Marlo.
There are a few absolutely crucial scenes in this season. One is Michael going to Marlo. The other is this one, the reward for Namond, Zenobia, and Darnell building the Eiffel Tower. It begins, as Bunny says, with the kids as "masters of the universe," and ends with them humilated. Take a look.
My questions for this scene:
1. What do you think was Bunny's purpose in taking them here? Clearly, humiliation was not the reason—he clearly thinks it's a good idea as they're parking the car, all of them excited. So what do you think his reason was?
2. It goes terribly wrong. Why?
3. How did you feel for Namond, Zenobia, and Darnell as you watched this?
4. Was Bunny, in your opinion, wrong in taking the kids here? Why or why not?
And finally:
5. What haven't we talked about that you would like to talk about?
Last: the opening to season five.
See you Tuesday.
1.I think Bunny had pure intentions of giving the kids a fancy night out and a good dinner. The fact that the kids had never been to a place like this and that they might feel out of place or embarrassed isn’t something that crossed Bunny’s mind beforehand.
ReplyDelete2. The kids had never been to a restaurant like this, and didn’t know exactly what to do. It was clear that they were out of their environment. I think it was a wake up call for the kids about class in their city. It’s made clear that the only thing the kids know everything about, and care a lot about, is their world they grew up in, like their neighborhood and being corner kids. This dinner was a chance for them to see a completely different world. This is a world the kids know nothing about, and they are the only people in the restaurant that don’t know how to act in this environment, leaving them embarrassed and disappointed.
3. I felt very bad for the kids in this scene. It was obvious that the kids were very uncomfortable and out of place. I felt especially bad because they had been so excited for this dinner prize that they won. Instead of a fun night and good food, the kids were so unfamiliar with the setting that they just felt embarrassed.
4. I can’t say that Bunny was in the wrong taking the kids to the restaurant, because his intentions weren’t to make the kids feel bad. I certainly do not think that I would have expected this to come of a dinner treat, and I don’t blame Bunny for what happened.
5. I’m not sure if past seasons are too relevant in the story now, but I am interested in what happened in Kima’s past regarding her partner and her baby. The child in this episode called her ‘Aunt Kima’, but she was there to pay some of her child support. I am curious why things had to end between Kima and her partner, and why it was necessary for her to choose her job over somebody that she loved. I also wonder what happened regarding this child, and why Kima isn’t involved in its life very much.
1. I think Bunny just wanted to give the kids a nice dinner. In his world, that’s how your reward good work. But I do think that he knew the kids might be embarrassed or feel out of place at the restaurant. However, it has crossed my mind that maybe he decided to bring them anyway so that he could observe how they behave outside of the streets or school.
ReplyDelete2. I think it goes wrong because the kids didn’t expect a nice dinner to be anything like what they experienced. I think the formality of the restaurant surprised them. And then they felt out of place. Once they were uncomfortable, everything went downhill. And by the end of the dinner, I think they were mostly disappointed with themselves for getting their hopes up.
3. I understand how Namond, Zenobia, and Darnell felt. I have been in a similar position as them were I felt uncomfortable in my surroundings. And I can’t blame them for acting they way they did. I know they must have felt pretty awful by the time they got back in the car. I feel like all of their reactions made sense, though. Namond wanted to go back to something he was comfortable with, Darnell wanted to forget about the dinner, and Zenobia wanted to appreciate the dinner even though it was bad.
4. I don’t blame Bunny for what happened but I think he could have prepared the kids a little better. He could have explained what the specials meant, the meat temperatures, the difference between a waitress and a hostess etc. I think he kind of threw the kids into a place where he had to have known that they would not have been comfortable. But overall, and don’t think anything that happened is any one person's fault. It’s the system’s fault.
5. I would like to talk about Proposition Joe a little bit more. I’m sort of confused why he wants to partner with Marlo because I thought he and the other drug dealers wanted to get rid of Marlo when they had their meeting. But Marlo is now part of the co-op in order to get rid of the New York people. I just need some clarification about Joe and his role in the show.
1. As much as I like Bunny, I’m a little unsure that his intentions were only to congratulate Namond, Zenobia, and Darnell for the completion of the activity. When he’s recounting the dinner to Parenti, he says, “I knew they’d be at a loss, but the extent of it. I’m talking about feelings. Why they feeling this- this plummet from Nassau University abject fear to humiliated fury and no awareness of it.” So, yes, I’d agree that he didn’t intend for them to be humiliated, but he was aware that “they’d be at a loss.” He knew ahead of time that they might be uncomfortable. Even though the dinner was supposed to be the prize for the activity, it seemed as if the evening was only a continuation of the class. I’m sure that Bunny and Parenti are sad about what happened, but they’re still focused on the mental and psychological mindset of the kids, such as the doctor-like descriptions of “Nassau University abject fear.” I wouldn’t say that Bunny was trying to put Namond, Zenobia, and Darnell in a position where they’d be uncomfortable on purpose, but I can’t get past the point that he was aware that they might not feel excited to be at that restaurant. However, I’ve thought about it more, and I wonder if Bunny had wanted them to be more confident in who they are. As he explained to Parenti, “How you get them to believe in themselves if they can’t even admit their feelings about who they are and what they doing in this world?” Maybe Bunny knew they’d be uncomfortable, but he wanted them to be able to see that if they wanted to be at that restaurant, then they could. He could have wanted them to realize that they belong at that restaurant just as much, even more, than any other person in there. However, I think that he points out that they can’t feel this way about themselves when, tragically, so many other people don’t feel that way about them. As Bunny says, “They not fools. They know exactly where we expect them to be.” Even the class that Darnell, Namond, and Zenobia are in reinforces this idea- they are in the class made out for corner kids. If they’re expected to be corner kids, even by their teachers, then how can they feel confident in themselves? They aren’t given the option of making the life that they want to live, not the one people shove onto them.
ReplyDelete2. Bunny admits later that he knew that Zenobia, Darnell, and Namond would “be at a loss,” and as the scene progresses, one can really see how self-conscious they get. As Darnell says to Namond after he laughs at Zenobia’s comment, “Shut it down. Other people be looking at us.” He doesn’t want any extra attention on them, or any people judging them. I don’t believe that Darnell, Zenobia, or Namond is any different than any other person sitting at that restaurant, but it seems that many of the people there believe so. I think that this is where the evening goes wrong. If people don’t feel welcome, how do you expect them to have a good time? Zenobia, Namond, and Darnell felt so out of place, so I’m not sure how they could have been able to enjoy a dinner where people weren’t welcoming or polite to them.
3. This was a really hard scene to watch, and I feel so awful that Zenobia, Namond, and Darnell felt so out of place at the restaurant. It upsets me greatly that we live in a society where issues of class can separate people so much, when there is no reason for class separations to be a thing. From the minute that the kids and Bunny step into the restaurant, Zenobia, Namond, and Darnell seem to feel this pressure weighing on them. Just because they may not be used to going out to dinner at this kind of restaurant, it doesn’t mean that they can’t. I absolutely hate that they were so excited going in the restaurant, and then so disappointed once they left. As Bunny said later, they seemed to be humiliated; it’s not fair to me that they should be humiliated, though, as they have no reason to be. They didn’t do anything wrong- they went to dinner, as they are entitled to do. Again, as Bunny told Parenti afterwords, they are expected to be somewhere- on the corner in Baltimore’s drug trade. However, as we saw in class, some of the kids don’t actually want to do this. And as we see of Namond, he is forced by his mother to work on the corner. They don’t want to be this stereotype that people have of them, but then they go to the restaurant, they aren’t welcomed there and they are uncomfortable. Obviously, they were so excited to eat dinner there, but their disappointment at what they saw inside made me feel so upset on their behalf.
ReplyDelete4. As Bunny said himself, he wasn’t aware that Namond, Zenobia, and Darnell would feel that “at a loss” at the restaurant. Because of this, I don’t think he was wrong in bringing them there; he didn’t want the evening to be bad on purpose, of course. Bunny didn’t reassure them that they had every right to be there when he saw how disappointed they were, but I think he felt discontented with the dinner as well. So I don’t think Bunny was wrong for bringing them to the restaurant. I strongly believe that the fault lies with society’s insistence of class and privilege. In my opinion, everyone deserves to eat out and have fun, which Bunny wanted the kids to do. Yes, he knew that they might feel out of place, but he didn’t think the dinner would go so bad. I wouldn’t have wanted Bunny to have not brought them to the restaurant, because that would show how influential the pressures of society can be. Obviously, I hated that Zenobia, Namond, and Darnell did not enjoy the evening, as I wish that they could have been able to eat dinner in peace. I don’t want to accept that people can’t eat where they want or do what they want out of discomfort and the pressure of others’ judging. Though I say this, I also realize that I can’t understand the disappointment that these kids felt in full. I was given a life with the privilege to walk into a restaurant and feel comfortable there, so it’s not 100% fair for me to even say this.
5. As Sabrina said, I’d like to talk about how Proposition Joe plays both Omar and Marlo. If my memory serves correct, he told Omar about the game he could rob, where Marlo was actually playing. Then, Marlo gets Chris and Snoop to make Old Face Andre blame Omar, but when Old Face Andre comes clean and asks Proposition Joe for help, Proposition Joe sends him to be killed at Marlo’s demand.
I think, for the most part, Bunny believed that the kids would have a fun time at the restaurant. He thought that this type of restaurant wasn’t something the kids normally experienced, and assumed that they would enjoy the mystery and adventure, as well as the classy atmosphere and food. I also think that, at least later on, Bunny realized that the dinner could be used as a little experiment to see how the kids reacted towards this other part of society, one which they weren’t a part of.
ReplyDeleteThe restaurant scene goes wrong for the kids because the environment is so alien while also much more “respectable” than what they’re used to. For one, I think all three are a bit embarrassed. They come from a place of mostly black people, in neighborhoods that we might consider “sketchy” and run down. In the restaurant you have these elite, rich, white people who could be looking down on and judging Zenobia, Namond, and Darnell. I assume they’re thinking this.
I feel really sad for the kids in this scene. I can empathize with them because I’ve also felt this way, maybe not with as wide of a class divide as them, but I’ve still experienced this. And it’s terrible. Furthermore, the utter disappointment and let down from being so excited for the dinner to feeling ashamed and embarrassed to be at such a restaurant must have been, and still is terrible.
I don’t think Bunny was wrong to take the kids here. I do think he made a bit of a mistake, or at least didn’t think totally of the consequences. While this seems contradictory, I think that the mistake has the potential to benefit the study of the kids, and maybe the kids themselves, thus making the dinner the right decision.
Currently, I can’t really think of anything specific that I want to talk about that we haven’t talked about. Something will probably pop into my mind during class. If so, I’ll write it down.
1. I think he wanted to show them another version of life that can occur if you do not decide to sell drugs for a living. He thought that he could take them to this restaurant and they would see a different kind of life to strive for. He also wanted to praise them for their accomplishments. This place was very fancy, and he would most likely think of it as a special treat. By bringing them here, he implied that if they worked hard in school, they could achieve the fancy life that everyone else in the restaurant had.
ReplyDelete2. I think the problem with the restaurant is that the environment did not inspire the kids the way Bunny wanted it to. These kids have always felt stereotyped by the outside world. The school system treats them as though they are dumb, and the cops and government treat them as though they cannot accomplish anything except selling drugs. Before they went in to the restaurant, they believed they were proving everyone wrong. They had worked together and successfully constructed an Eiffel Tower. However, when they showed up to the restaurant, they realized how different they were from everyone else. They did not seem to understand what the waitress was saying to them, and did not understand the proper etiquette of the restaurant. This, in turn, made them feel stupid. They lost the hope that they could escape the drug life they seemed destined for and returned to their rebellious ways.
3. I felt terrible for Namond, Zenobia and Darnell. When they successfully constructed the Eiffel Tower, they were ecstatic. In Bunny’s car beforehand, you could also tell how happy they were to go to this restaurant. Zenobia had obviously spent a long time on her hair, make up and outfit. I wanted them to experience this reward because of how they had worked together. But, in the end, the trip did not turn out to be a reward. It felt like their hopes had been crushed, and it was a very sad moment.
4. Looking back, I do not think that taking the kids to that restaurant was a good idea. It would have been much more beneficial to take them somewhere nice, but not somewhere so fancy. If he had instead taken them somewhere fancier than where they would normally go, but still somewhere where they would not feel too out of place, I think they would have liked it better. However, I do not think Bunny knew what would happen. I have no doubt Bunny would not have taken them somewhere else if he had known what the outcome would be, but he had no way of knowing how the kids would react. Given how excited the kids were before they got in to the restaurant, and Bunny’s own experience, I think he made the right decision in that moment.
5. I would like to talk a little about Marlo’s relation with the other drug dealers. I have only seen him interact with one member, Proposition Joe, and I am a little confused as to their relationship. Is Marlo working with all of the members we saw in that meeting? Or just Proposition Joe? What is Marlo’s role in the relationship?
I think that Bunny thought that it was a good idea to take the kids there as he potentially saw it as a way to show these three kids an aspect of the city they could have never seen. This I think may have been to try and also get through to them and show the kids that there is more to the world than the police and being on the corner. I think he also wanted to reward them and gain more of their trust by showing them something new that he thought they would enjoy doing though he was wrong I think this was a good idea.
ReplyDeleteI think the reason it goes wrong is the three kids feel incredibly uncomfortable as they've never seen anything like this before, they also have no idea what is going on and there is nobody like them there. This experience also shows a part of them not seen in the rest of the show as we see them feeling like they don't belong.
I felt quite bad for Namond, Zenobia and Darnell as it was clear especially after that they were uncomfortable. I think this likely was a step backwards for the experimental teaching program at least for these three kids as that likely was a hard experience for them.
I think with the benefit of knowing what happened it is easy to say Bunny was wrong but I think that from his perspective its quite a smart thing to do. He would gain the trust of the kids and likely be able to help them more along with showing them something else in Baltimore besides gangs and police maybe helping them want to work to get iff the streets. He had no way of knowing that taking them to the restaurant would end horribly like it did.
I would personally like to talk about what the future holds for Prez as a teacher especially with now having to teach English in his math class despite not wanting to.
I think that Bunny didn’t actually mean to take them there for humiliation. I think that he wanted them to go socialize with out people. They have never truly interacted with upper class people or just a waiter in general. He wanted to them to know what its like in the higher class real life.
ReplyDeleteIt goes terribly wrong because the students realize that they aren’t who they are representing. They aren’t the same as the people around them and they realize that. They felt out of place. They later go to the car and get themselves in check.
I felt bad because you can easily see their frustration. They don’t like the feeling of being in that restaurant. You can feel for them when they feel sad leaving. They were so happy going in and sad going out. They wanted to get a picture and ended up not getting one because of how upset they were.
I think he was wrong for taking them because he didn’t think about the kids reaction to being at the restaurant. I don’t think he understood that they would feel so bad being there. He just thought about his goals for them.
I want to talk about Randy. Will Herc get Randy in a lot of trouble. I want to know if lil kev will go out an tell the street. IF he does it could get them both in a lot of trouble. It would be worse for lil kev though. He has more connections that’ll beg out for him
1. I think that Bunny decided to take them here simply because he thought it would be something that they would enjoy. The nice food is likely something they don’t have often, if not ever, so he thought that this would be a nice treat for them. I doubt that he meant any harm by doing this.
ReplyDelete2. The dinner goes very badly because they all feel very out of place. There is a camera angle that shows the rest of the restaurant, and it is all older white people, and this likely made them feel uncomfortable. They likely felt embarrassed that they didn’t know how to act in the restaurant, or even how to order. This discomfort wasn’t something that they were able to work around, and caused them to have a miserable time.
3. I felt very sad for them while watching this. It wasn’t their fault that they found themselves lost while in the restaurant, as they had never done anything like this before. I felt worse for Bunny, however. This is because he wanted the kids to have a fun night, but instead his plan backfired. They were likely angry with him because of this, even though he meant the best.
4. I wouldn’t say that he was wrong to take them here. Like I’ve said, he did it with good intentions, and he had no idea that it would go poorly. If he were to do the same thing again, after watching how poorly it went the first time, I would say that he was wrong, but he truly had no idea.
I think we should talk more about the goal of the corner kids’ class. I haven’t really seen any progress being made, and I am starting to wonder what the point really is.
I think Bunny takes them to the steakhouse because he is proud of them and does not see them as bad kids. He realizes that they are already making progress and they are not bad kids. Bunny is like a father figure to these kids, or we see him becoming more like that in the most recent episodes. Bunny knew they would be a little confused, yet he hoped they would learn a little bit, but Bunny didn’t think about how lost they would be. He was excited to teach them a little bit more, like what fork to use, and what a hostess is compared to a waitress. Bunny did not realize the extent of the kids loss, like not being comfortable to take off their jackets, and being confused about specials. The kids were so out of their elements, and no matter how hard they tried they didn’t know how to handle the situation right. I was able to relate to them more then I have in any of the other moments previous. Not that I have lived their live and can understand exactly what that night must have felt like, and they felt more out of place then I have, but, I did see them as real kids for the 1st time. We have gotten to know the other 3 boys (Micheal, Randy, and Duquan), but we see Namond and his emotions. He constantly tries so hard to be adult, and seem grown up, but despite his family’s money, and Namonds expensive clothes, he can’t fit in here he doesn’t know how too. I feel bad for the kids in this scene, because not only are they not from the same background as any of the others at the steakhouse, and they were new to this, but because they are kids, at a weird age that’s complicated even more because this is a time that defines the rest of their lives. This is why Bunny chose this age, because there is still a chance to help these kids, if they were any older they wouldn’t have been sad about not fitting in at the restaurant, they would have expressed their humiliation with anger. I don’t think Bunny was wrong for taking the kids here, his intentions were generally for them to enjoy themselves, and also to learn. Bunny knew the kids would feel out of place but he didn’t know how hard it would be. I think he did this because he cares about the kids, not to teach them a lesson, or punish them, even though it might have felt like a punishment to them. Bunny was upset when the kids didn’t enjoy themselves, like a father trying to teach his kids something and bond with them, but the kids were so uncomfortable, it seemed heartbreaking to Bunny, knowing that after this the kids were another step towards being corner kids forever. I want to know more about Carver, he is one of my favorite characters so far, he is trustworthy, understanding, and hardworking, and I want to know more about his backstory.
ReplyDelete1. I think that Bunny wanted to give the kids a different look at their city and their circumstance. He feels that a look at a more upper class setting will motivate these kids to pick up their acts and maybe even care about school. A look at how these people love may give these teens some perspective about their lives. I think that Bunny wants to prove that there is more to life than just the corner. Bunny also wants them to see other parts of Baltimore that are not riddled with drugs and gangs. He thinks that if he brings these kids out of their situation they will realize how important it is for them to get out. Bunny’s intentions are pure nad I do not believe that there was any malicious incentive behind this dinner. However, it clearly does not go to plan.
ReplyDelete2. I think there are many reasons that this dinner goes wrong. Firstly, It is an environment that these kids are unprepared for and unaware of. When Darnell describes how he wants “a quarter pounder and fries” and Namond corrects him there is a mythical attribute to this fancy dinner. They each know some about what they are walking into, but they have not experienced it. It is such a foreign concept to them. Secondly, the fact that there are so many white people (maybe more than these kids have seen in their whole lives) in one place staring at them makes them very uncomfortable. Lastly, it gives them a look at the world outside of their own isolated neighborhood of West Baltimore. While to us this sounds like a good thing, to these kids it is daunting. They realize their own mortality and maybe even obscurity. They are no longer big names in the neighborhood or their middle school. They are just regular people.
3. I found myself feeling sympathy for Namond, Darnell and Zenobia. They seem very upset being at this dinner for the reasons listed above. I think that being dragged into a situation that they had not been aptly prepared for caused some serious trauma for them. After the dinner when they all pile back into the car, we get insight into the true nature of the general behavior of the “corner kids.” When faced with a situation that makes them uncomfortable, such as this dinner, they revert back to the stereotypes that we have of them. We see that Namond turns the radio up in protest, Darnell asks to go to McDonalds, and Zenobia fights with Darnell. To me this is a direct correlation to how they are in school. Therefore, school must be uncomfortable for them and that is why they act up.
4. I do not think that Bunny was wrong for taking the kids to that restaurant because he did not have any ulterior motive for taking them. He should have prepared them more for what was inside, and taken more of their lack of experience to heart, but he means well. He wants to reward the kids for working well together, but I do not think that he thought through the reward that carefully. However, that does not mean that he shouldn’t have brought them.
5. I would like for us to talk more about what Kris and Snoop have been doing. I feel like we glossed over some of their recent kills simply because there is some sympathy towards them. It is necessary to acknowledge that they are killing people with no remorse. I feel it is especially important after Marlo has Andre killed.
ReplyDeleteThe whole point of the trip was an incentive and prize to make the kids want to finish their group project the fastest. Bunny chose a fancy dinner downtown as the prize as it has a connotation of luxury that these kids do not have the chance to experience. He wanted to treat them to something nice that is foreign to them. It could have even been an example of what life could be like if they get on the right track and are able to leave the neighborhoods they grew up in for a better life.
It goes badly because instead of being able to enjoy this fine dining experience the stark comparisons of these kids and the environment of the restaurant can’t be ignored. First of all, the camera pans the restaurant and all of the other people dining are white. The kids don’t understand the way the the restuaunt works as they feel uncomfortable when asked to take their coats or confused about the concept of the specials menu. Instead of feeling treated and happy as bunny many have intended they just start to feel embarrassed and uncomfortable with this environment that couldn't be more different than what they are used to. They obviously get a strong feeling that they dont belong there/
I felt really bad for them, especially Zenobia, as I watched this scene. Zenobia was so excited for this taste of luxury as she spends an hour getting ready and brings her camera. After the meal we realize how far from her expectations the dinner was as she refuses to be in a picture in front of the restaurant. I think she felt embarrassed that she couldn't fit into this world that is supposed to be such high living. We see Namond go through a similar experience with his music progression before and after the meal. After dinner, he blasts rap. Making a statement that seems like he's trying himself to the world he comes from and always will belong to.
Obviously Bunny had good intentions with this trip. He wanted to do something nice with the kids he had been working with. I do think it was a little unrealistic on his part to expect them to conform completely to the environment and for everything to go smoothly.
I think it would be interesting to talk more in-depth about the female students at the school and the specific struggles they face.
I think that Bunny wanted to reward them for their work to make it feel worth it. Even though it was understood that they were supposed to use all the pieces Namond used his wit to put the extras in his pocket and Bunny recognized his cleverness. He needed to show the class that hard work is rewarded in school and not just on the corner.
ReplyDeleteThe kids are all in a very foreign to the environment in the restaurant. They are also surrounded by pretty wealthy people which makes them feel uncomfortable. When the waitress lists off the specials they feel extremely out of place because they don’t understand what she is talking about.
It was hard to watch because you could see in their faces how defeated they looked. It was especially sad because we saw how excited they were before the restaurant versus after they ate. The best example of this is Zenobia not wanting to take a picture after she had said she wanted to before they ate.
I think he was wrong in taking them there, but his intentions were in the right place. They deserved an award for their success in completing their model first.
1. He wanted to show the kids that if they work hard and are able to work well with others, they will be rewarded and that there is a world outside of drug dealing that is appealing. Maybe he wanted to show them a lifestyle to aspire to that doesn’t have anything to do with drug dealing. Part of the appeal of drug dealing to these kids, besides that they probably feel it is their only option, may be that it means they can buy flashy things, so Bunny might’ve felt that showing them something that is “flashy” in a totally different sense could be really appealing to them and something they might want for themselves. I also think he just wanted the kids to feel special. Even though most of these kids feel they have bigger things to worry about at home, and if anyone asked, they would likely say that they don’t care about school at all, if you’re told your whole life that you are a “bad kid,” it’s really hard not to internalize that message, so Bunny wanted to make them feel special for doing something good rather than punishing them for doing something bad because it is pretty clear that constant punishment, the approach most teachers have used for all these students lives, has not been working. Maybe Bunny feels that this could get these kids to start caring about school.
ReplyDelete2. As soon as they walk in, they feel like complete outsiders who don’t belong. Part of this is because of their race. I think there might have been one black couple in the background if I’m not mistaken, but the vast majority of people in the restaurant were white. These kids probably haven’t interacted with many white people at all who weren’t in some sort of position of power over them- e.g, a teacher or police officer. Most of the time they are in majority black spaces, so they are likely more aware of their race than they normally are, which makes them feel uncomfortable. Because they’ve never been to place like this, not only in terms of its whiteness but also just because of the fact that it’s a fancy sit-down restaurant, they are very aware of themselves and are very insecure in what they’re doing and are very afraid of being judged. They can’t be certain as to whether or not they are saying the right thing, wearing the right thing, doing the right thing, behaving the right way because they’ve never been taught how to act in a situation like this (I never went to Cotillion, but I remember a lot of my friends in fifth grade being forced to go, and this scene makes me think about why kids are forced to go and learn manners- manners that don’t signify actual kindness, just mere “politeness”- and how knowing the types of things you learn in Cotillion might be the types of things that allow you to get ahead later in life and how dumb and unfair that seems). These kids are aware that they are stepping into a world that they do not understand, and therefore they can’t just act naturally and be themselves; they have to question everything they do. Being in this unfamiliar space forces them to realize that the world that they live in is all they know, and there are many different worlds out there that they don’t know how to operate in, which likely makes them feel both self conscious and also somewhat trapped because going to this restaurant makes them feel that they will only ever feel like they belong within the world that they are from, and it’s hard for them to fully recognize this, but within the world that they live in, it is going to be really hard for them to have a long, happy, healthy, prosperous, and stable life.
3. This scene is really upsetting. They were so excited, but as soon as they walked in, they knew they didn’t belong, and that is just devastating to see. I definitely recognized the way they felt. To an extent, this scene reminded of times when I’ve gone shopping, out to dinner, or on vacation with friends who are significantly wealthier than I am. Although I know what it’s like to feel like I don’t belong in a certain space because of my socio-economic class, I definitely don’t fully know what it feels like to be in their position, and this scene was much more sad and very different in a number of ways than any experience I’ve ever had with feeling out of place because of my families economic status. Part of this is because even though there are situations in which I may feel out of place, I am not actually a complete “outsider” in these situations because of the connections I have to those who are “insiders.” Also, on the first day of class, we talked about that David Simon quote that brought up this idea of having a place in society, and even though there are certain levels of wealthy society that I might feel somewhat uncomfortable stepping into, I do have a place in society, while that is not really the case with the kids in this show.
ReplyDelete4. This is a very hard question, and I don’t know the answer because it is clear to me that he had good intentions, but there was a bad outcome. I think it was great that he wanted to reward these kids and make them feel special for doing something good rather than punishing them for doing something bad (when I say “doing something bad,” I just mean in general, I’m not necessarily referring to Namond hiding some of the pieces of the Eiffel Tower puzzle). I also think he did want to show them this aspect of society that was unfamiliar to them, possibly hoping to give the kids something to aspire to, not knowing that this would only further discourage them. This brings up the questions, is it fair to expect Bunny to know how poorly this would go? And, is it completely a bad thing that they went? It was devastating to see how sad these kids were, but could they have really gone there entire lives without recognizing that there is this whole other part of society out there? And even if it is possible, which it very well could be as they don’t have much reason to leave West Baltimore, is it good for them to never fully grasp what it means for them live in their place in world, even though when you take a look at the bigger picture, the situation that they are in is pretty tragic? Also, could this moment have inspired them to want to “make it out” or did this scene just reinforce the idea that they can never “make it out”? And given how out of place they feel in the restaurant, is it possible for them to “make it out?” And on a larger scale, is it even worth it to try and “make it out”? Is that really a good thing?
5. I’d like to talk about toxic masculinity in this show. We see this within all aspects of society in the show: on the streets, amongst the kids in the school, amongst the police officers, and amongst the politicians. I’d like to talk about the roots of it, the effects of it, the differences and similarities in how it comes up in different communities, and how we look at it and judge it differently when examining it in different communities.
1. As most everyone has already said, I think Bunny was not trying to hurt the kids by taking them to the fancy restaurant. I think he did, however, want to shock them a little bit. I think he was interested in seeing how they handled themselves. At school, the kids are confident. They don’t listen to the rules (especially Namond, who doesn’t even wear his uniform) and they aren’t interested in learning what they’re being taught. However, by talking about something that they’re interested in, Bunny, as well as the white man and the teacher, learned about a whole new side of the kids in the experimental classroom. The kids were engaged and happy to talk about what they do out of school, a world with which they are very familiar. By taking them to the fancy restaurant, I think that Bunny wanted to show them a world they weren’t as familiar with: a fancy world in which they are forced to be polite and cordial. I think he wanted to take them out of their comfort zone, and like Hunter said, provide an alternate life option for them in which they don’t sell drugs but still make a lot of money. Part of me thinks he wanted to show them where they would be able to get if they stayed in school and went to college and got a well paying job.
ReplyDelete2. It goes terribly wrong because the teenagers realize that they’re not fit for that kind of world. They are, in a way, put in their place. Like I said in the previous question, they’re all very confident, and it’s because they already know what they're going to do with their lives and how to do it well. When they go to the restaurant, however, they realize just how small and insignificant they really are in the world. It’s not easy to come to the realization of how little you are in a such a big world, especially when you’re at the top of the middle school and beginning to become part of the drug world, an extremely powerful world in Baltimore at the time. It also goes wrong because obviously, there is a huge class problem present. The restaurant feels like a completely different world because of the expensive meals, mannerisms of the hostess and waiters, and the people at the surrounding tables. I think that the kid feel like they don’t fit in on all aspects.
3. I felt really sad for Namond, Zenobia, and Darnell because they were humiliated. It’s quite awkward and embarrassing being in a place where you feel out of place and not knowing how to act. It’s a huge blow to the moral for all of them because they are used to having so much more power, and it’s sad to see the life sucked out of them.
4. I do not think that Bunny was wrong in taking them to the restaurant. While it was uncomfortable and humiliating, I think that it was partially necessary. Regardless of what career the teenagers end up having, they won’t be able to stay in their bubble forever. I think it was necessary for them to see the other side. It wasn’t fun for any of them, but in my opinion, it needed to happen in order for them to become less naive. Now they know what’s outside of where they’re living, and they can choose to never enter the richer side of Baltimore again if they want. The important part, however, is that they know what it’s like and how different it is from their own lives.
5. I would like to talk more about Marlo. While we’ve talked a little bit about him, I think there’s still a large amount that we haven’t talked about regarding his younger life, his life outside of drugs, and how he treats those around him. I think that he’s a very interesting character, and it intrigues me how he’s both calm/collected and cocky at the same time. He’s also extremely smart, and I would like to talk more about how carefully he plays the game and how it makes him mostly unstoppable.
I think that Bunny was just trying to give the kids a reward that isn’t something they would be able to do in their everyday lives. The only way to really motivate these kids is giving them an incentive. I think Bunny was trying to show them what life could be like outside of their neighborhood and the corners. I don’t think the kids responded well to it because they felt so out of place and embarrassed by their lack of knowledge in dining etiquette. Looking around the room, I don’t think the kids saw anyone they could relate to or connect with to feel more comfortable. It felt like they were trying to be people they were not, and all of them didn’t respond in a positive way to that. I think that these kids are used to being “on top” and “in control” of situations so when they are put somewhere completely out of their comfort zone they don’t know how to respond. I also think that the kids realized this likely wasn’t the life they were going to have while they were in the restaurant. I think this speaks to what Bunny was saying to his partner in the school hallway when he said that the kids are smart and they know what we expect them to be. I felt bad for the kids because it’s terrible to feel like you don’t belong or that you won’t be good enough. I would like to talk about Prez’s relationship with the boys. I think Prez has really impacted these kids lives in a positive way, like washing Dookie’s clothes for him. However, I also feel like he’s not really teaching them. I also think he doesn’t set many boundaries with the kids and it can be kinda weird to see them interact. For example, when Prez used his credit card to buy candy or chips for Randy. I just don’t really know how to feel about Prez. He’s nice and all but at the same time he’s not one of my favorite characters.
ReplyDeleteI believe that Bunny took the kids to the steakhouse to show them how it feels to be treated to a meal, and to observe how their manners are when it comes to being quiet and polite in a gaudy setting. I however, feel that this turned bad for the kids because they had never been put into a setting where they feel alienated from everyone else and had to act a way different from how they usually do. You can see this particularly when they are leaving the steakhouse and refuse to take the photo because of the bad experience they had being in an environment that they are not particularly used to being in. In some ways, I did feel bad for Namond, Zenobia and Darnell as I watched this because of the high expectations they had for their experience at the steakhouse, and how they were let down because of the bad time they had at the restaurant. In a way, they kind of had it coming for them because of how well they thought their experience with the restaurant would go, but I also feel for them because of how nothing they’ve previously gone through has prepared them for new experiences like these. I didn’t feel as Bunny was wrong for taking the kids to the steakhouse, but I believe that he should’ve prepared the kids more for the experience as they were not ready and were let down as a result.
ReplyDeletePersonally, I would like to talk more about the backstories of the current season 4 characters as I constantly find myself wondering while watching the show about why certain characters act specific ways and what I'm missing by jumping straight into the 4th season without watching the previous 3. Most of my questions about the show are usually answered during class discussion, but this specific one has just been on my mind for some time.
While Bunny knew the kids would feel out of place, I believe his intentions were still good. I think he wanted to reward the kids behavior in the past class and show them a different perspective to life. Clearly, the kids in the class knew where their life was headed, and Bunny could’ve been trying to show them another way. He also could just been treating them to a nice dinner in a different setting then they were used to.
ReplyDeleteThe dinner is uncomfortable because the kids feel so out of place. They were clearly out of their comfort zones with the setting, and felt bad about it. It had the opposite effect as Bunny was hopefully going for. Bunny might have been trying to show that there was another way to life than the streets. Instead, it just proved the existence of their stereotypes and that they would never truly belong because of their upbringing. I do not think it was successful in the way Bunny wanted.
I felt bad for Namond, Zenobia, and Darnell. Especially because of how excited they were for the experience, and how afterwards they were clearly embarrassed. You can tell from the way that they tried to convince the other kids how great it was, and how Zenobia didn’t want a picture of the restaurant.
I think Bunny should have known not to take the kids there. It was clearly not a setting they were comfortable in. Even if he was trying to show the kids a different part of Baltimore, it was clearly not successful. He just proved to them even more that they didn't belong in that environment. However, I don't think that was Bunnys goal. I believe he was trying to treat the kids to a fancy dinner as a reward. Even so, I think it was a mistake to take them there.
I would like to talk more about Prospection Joe and his background. I want to know why he is in an alliance with Marlo, and more about him in general. If he did anything significant in past seasons that would explain his actions in season 4.